Soft Gun Cases

Once, again, Bruce I come to you for some advice.

I finally took possession of the Caesar Guerini Summit. The wood came out better than expected. The gun comes in a hard case, but I would like to get a full length (the gun measures 48″, but may need a bit thicker pad) soft case with a pouch for chokes and small items. I want one that will afford some protection to the gun, both from mild knocks as well as water, with lining that is designed to keep the gun dry and won’t snag. I’d like to stay within $100. Any suggestions?

BTW, I hope to get out this weekend to the shoot, weather permitting. I’ve shot this model so I don’t expect any surprises, but it will certainly be nice to be using my baby. Thanks, again, for all of your help.

Incidentally, I’ve had no luck with finding Kemens shells, and neither Rio nor Kemens has returned my email inquiries. Hope all is well. It’s certainly warmer where you are than it is here (10 deg), so for the time being I envy you.

Best regards and appreciation,

Ken

Dear Ken,

For the past 25 years I’ve used Boyt gun cases. I literally wear them out (zipper and carrying strap). Boyt refurbishes for free under their lifetime guarantee (which continued after Bob Allen bought them).

http://www.boytharness.com/

It has a number of advantages that might not be apparent. Just about any case will do for transportation in the trunk of the car, but not all cases will work for carrying it around comfortably whilst assembled, as on the sporting clays course. At some shoots where there is a backup on a station, all the gun racks and convenient tree nooks are filled. It’s really nice to have a one’s gun in a case then. Also, a proper carrying strap will allow over the shoulder carry to leave both hands free for shells and a stool or whatever.

So, what I looked for in a case was:

1) a really really strong FULL Length zipper. I find the top opening flap-top cases like the Gun Boy and others less convenient to use than the full length side zip ones. Others may disagree.

You see a lot of these top loading cases being used, so they must suit many people. They are certainly inexpensive enough.

2) well placed full length carrying strap. You want something that will hold the case comfortably over your shoulder. I have one of the inexpensive Bob Allen canvas/foam cases that is side zipper and has a fairly adequate carry strap, though not perfect. The Boyt cases I have have excellent straps. They are nice and wide, though I’d prefer it if the straps were sewn to the case at the top, rather than buckled. The buckle can be felt on the shoulder.

3) decent amount of padding. Just about everything has that, but I find that the guns don’t slip in quite as easily in fleece-lined cases. Cloth lined seems better. I’ve never had a snagging problem with the Boyt cases.

4) get a long enough case. Like getting a gun safe, get the largest you can afford/deal with. A 30″ gas gun needs a 52″ case. A 32″ O/U with long extended chokes needs one too. Get a case with enough length for your current gun and for your next one. A slightly long gun case really isn’t much of a bother. One that is too short is useless. A good gun case may well outlive your current gun, so think ahead.

Also, make sure to get a full length case, not a take down case, unless you will use it only for travel.

5) the disadvantage of the Boyt is cost. They list at over $160. You can get a lot of cases much cheaper. Check Bean’s and Cabela’s for something similar. Just make sure that the strap offers comfortable carry. Many of the straps that look like a rifle sling are too short to position the gun case properly on the shoulder.

Boyt certainly isn’t the only good brand. The Orvis makes a case that is pretty nice. I have one for my wife’s gun, but always seem to pick the Boyt cases due to their wide comfortable carrying strap.

Up to you. There’s certainly enough choice out there and I don’t pretend to have tried them all. Early on I found that the Boyts worked for me so I never switched and they never wore out.

Another point: good gun slips work well for air travel when you go hunting. Just put your gun in your Boyt, Orvis, etc soft case and then put it in a Pelican hard case. Add a little extra padding and you are set. The hard Pelican exterior case will survive any amount of airlines baggage toss events, while the guns are safely protected in their soft cases inside. When you get to your hunting destination, you’ll have the necessary full length soft case to use in getting to the field or in the field cart if that’s the situation. I’ve flown with guns a lot and you’d be simply amazed at how hard the baggage handlers can be on gun cases.

Best regards,
Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid

Kicking Beretta 390

Dear Technoid:

I have a Beretta 390. I shot a case of Federal Grand American 1-1/8 oz loads. I must honestly suggest that the gun punched the hell out of me. I fired one practice round and 100 registered singles. The score places me solidly in “D” class.

My cheek was severely slapped, and my shoulder bruised, seems the toe of the stock was too high in the shoulder. A couple of questions have come to mind since. My left eye is my master eye, thus I tried shooting this gun left-handed. (I had learned long ago as a member of The New Jersey State Rifle Team that the eye dictates the shoulder from which the weapon is fired.) I always shoot rifles left handed, but, I wonder?

This may sound crazy after admitting to the above, but, when I shoulder this Beretta right handed, I am looking directly down the center of the rib, and, though it lacks a center bead, my eye looks at the proper amount of rib. The only problem I see is a faint “ghost” image which I am sure is generated by the dominance of the left eye.

My question, or questions are: Is there something wrong with the Beretta? (it seems to function properly). Can I shoot right handed without any further adjustment. (This would be nice as my left shoulder has taken a lifetime of recoil, and then some). Would a piece of transparent tape over my left lens do more harm than good? Are Federal Grand Americans extra “hot”? (Seems my old turkey loads kicked less from my Mossberg).

There seems to be a very varied opinion on any of these subjects, but, I have narrowed the choices down to he who “is never in doubt” so long as “he” does not mind these incessant questions.

Any help will be appreciated,

GE

Dear GE:

“Often in error, but never in doubt”, I will give it my best shot at long distance diagnosis over the ether of the internet. Attacking things in no particular order-

Federal Grand American shells- The Federal Grand American handicap loads that I bought when I was at the Grand in Vandalia two years ago were definitely a bit hotter than a normal 3 dram load. All the “majors” load special shells for the Grand and, although ATA rules expressly prohibit shells faster than 3 dram equivalent, they freely admit that their shells have just that little extra “competitive edge”- ie, are faster.

Be that as it may, a slightly hotter load should not have caused your symptoms. It has to be something else.

I doubt that there is anything mechanically wrong with the 390. You never mentioned that it failed to function. If it had, I believe that you would have said so. About 90% of the 303s and 390s work just fine right out of the box. The other 10% need to be carefully cleaned and then heavily lubricated with BreakFree CLP until they get broken in. One of my 303s required this, but now works perfectly.

Excessive cheek slap almost always indicates

1) improper fit gun (cast, pitch and height) and/or 2) incorrect shooting style. In that order usually.

Shoulder bruising indicates

1) a different kind of gun fit problem (usually stock length) and/or 2) incorrect shooting style.

There are really too many variables to get into without seeing you in action- but naturally, I cannot resist taking a few guesses.

As a cross dominant shooter, my guess is that you are keeping your head very erect when you bring the gun up to your cheek. There is a relatively long distance between the cheek and the shoulder due to this “heads up” shooting stance. This is why only a small part of the toe of the butt is against your shoulder and the rest is sticking out in the air. This means that all the recoil is concentrated into the little part of the butt that is on your shoulder, instead of spreading it out over the entire butt the way it should be. This would make anyone’s shoulder hurt. Having just a little bit of the butt on the shoulder would also make the gun move a great deal on firing. This would cause the face slap in a big way.

The problem may well be in your gun mount. I suggest that you try mounting the gun as follows: mount the gun to your shoulder so that the ENTIRE butt of the gun is against the shoulder. Now, with the gun in the shoulder, raise the shoulder up towards the face until the stock properly contacts the cheek. This way the butt will be fully in contact with the shoulder and the comb will still be on the cheek. Avoid having part of the butt on the shoulder and part sticking out above. This may seem awkward at first because you are doing it left handed, but I do believe that it will go a long way towards solving your problem.

If you want to switch from left to right shoulder, give it a try, but make sure that you mount the gun as I have described above. Since you say that you shot “100 registered singles” I assume that your sport is trap. Shooting “one eyed” in trap is not as big a disadvantage as it is at sporting clays or in the field, but it still is a bit of a handicap. I do agree with your rifle experience in that it is usually better to switch “handedness” than to switch eyes, but your case may be different with a bad shoulder to protect.

If you want to try right handed shooting with a left master eye, a piece of frosty Scotch tape on the left lens is fine. To put it on right, mount the gun as if you were shooting and have some one put the patch on the lens so that it just obscures your front bead. You do not need, or want, to cover up the whole lens. The other alternative is just to close the left eye, either before you call for the bird or after you have identified its trajectory.
You should know that the Beretta 390 stocks are adjustable by way of shims and washers. The most recent field 390s come cast off for a righty and with 60 mm of drop, although you never know what Beretta will do on a gun to gun basis. You can increase the height slightly and center the stock just by reversing the shim and washer. If you want more extreme adjustment, you can order other washer/shim combinations from Beretta in Accokeek.

Your gun probably lined up correctly when you mounted it right handed because it comes set up cast for a righty, but it is easy to change. There is not such thing as an absolute right or wrong gun stock dimension. All people and shooting styles differ a bit. If you can shoot off of your left side with both eyes open, I would do it. Binocular vision is a plus in any shooting game. I certainly would not let the fact that my gun seems to fit better righty than lefty influence that decision. Change the way the stock fits. The gun should serve you, not visa versa. If you do want to shoot righty, give it a try, secure in the knowledge that you can adjust the stock if it does not work out. By the way, it was pretty gutsy of you shooting registered with a new, unfit gun and an unsolved eye dominance problem. You are obviously not afraid to take risks!

Best regards,
Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid

Browning Salt Wood Explained

Dear Technoid,

Please discuss the Browning Superposed salt problem and how to detect this defect. I have not been able to find any reference to it in the shotgun literature.

Bill

Dear Bill,

The best discussion of the Browning salt wood issue is in Ned Schwing’s “Browning Superposed” book (Krause Press, 1996). According to Schwing, in the mid ’60s Browning needed a better supply of high grade walnut for it’s guns. A California contractor had a large inventory of good walnut taken from clearing power line right of ways. Demand for Browning guns was at an all time high and the usual kiln drying process for walnut was too slow to produce what was needed. Rapid kiln drying also produced cracks in the California walnut.

Morton Salt had developed a salt solution drying process successfully used in the furniture industry with good results. This cured the walnut much faster than the kiln method. Browning tested it and there were no problems, so Browning bought the process in 1965. “In an area roughly the size of a football field, five-foot by five-foot by eight-foot stacks of stock blanks were covered with salt. The salt was supposed to leach out the moisture and dry the wood quickly. The process did accomplish its purpose but the moisture that was drawn out of the blanks on top of the stacks ran down into the blanks below, resulting in a brine solution that soaked the lower wood blanks.” (Schwing, pp 246) The retained salt reacted with the gun metal with the finished stock was installed. This caused the rust associated with “the salt wood problem”.

According to Schwing’s interviews with Browning’s Harm Williams and Val Browning, all the salt curing was done in the US and affected at least 90% of all Browning stocks from made from 1967 to 1969. The problem continued to show up until 1972, but in smaller numbers. It was then that the entire supply of walnut blanks was burned and replaced with traditional kiln dried wood.

To detect salt wood on 1966 to 1972 guns, first check for outward appearance of dark or discolored spots. Check every place that wood meets metal, as on the rear of the forend and at the head of the stock. Rust on the metal will be apparent if there is a problem. According to Schwing, the definitive test is to remove the butt pad/plate, scrape away a little wood from the exposed butt and apply a 1% solution of silver nitrate to the fresh wood. If the silver nitrate remains light purple, there is no salt. If the silver nitrate turns white, you have a salt gun.

If you can prove that you are the original owner of the salt gun, Browning used to replace the wood for free and will probably still do so. If you bought the gun used, you are on your own. I got a used Superposed 410 with salt wood some time ago. Browning charged me about $250, if memory serves, to replace the wood. It wasn’t free, but it was certainly a bargain price. I don’t know what the numbers today are.

By the way, Browning wasn’t the only one to get taken in by the salt wood walnut curing process. I’ve heard that some other gun companies did also, but weren’t quite as up front about dealing with it.

Best regards,

Bruce Buck
The Technoid writing for Shotgun Report, LLC
(Often in error. Never in doubt.)

Reducing Recoil

Hello Technoid :

I own a BPS browning 20ga with a hollowed out stock. That is to say the stock has a oval shaped hole in it instead of just a hole for the mounting bolt. I use my guns for hunting and just have never found the time to pick up the technical words for the parts so please bare with me on that.

I have broke my neck twice and for the most part I am put together with metal plates but refuse to stop hunting because of this small setback. The problem I am having is with the recoil just can’t seem to tame it enough so I can see straight for the second shot on that wily rooster that alludes the first shot sent.

I traded off my 12 ga thinking that if I went to 20 ga I could tame the recoil enough and be able to make it through a day of shooting. Well as you might imagine this was a grasping at straws move and the 20 ga really isn’t a big difference from the 12 ga. Sometimes a person knowing full well the mistake he or she is making still just run through it then look back and well… you know the story. I would think most of us have been there once in their life.

Getting to the question: I have I looked into a Limbsaver recoil pad for this shotgun and none of the templates even came close to what I needed. I also looked into the Edwards Recoil Reducer, which would work if I installed a shim to accommodate the oval shaped hole in my stock but would it reduce the recoil as much as they claim. The butt on this particular shotgun is curved will this need to be cut straight for all applications? What are your thoughts on this? Do you know of any recoil pads that would work with this curved butt plate? The main question being I need the most bang for the buck when it comes to the recoil. The face slap is extremely important also its the difference between being able to shoot again and not, along with the recoil. I guess you could say I am stuck between a bang and a hard place. (sorry its late and it seemed to fit at the time)

But as you are aware being the Technoid there are more different recoil pads then there are misquotes in North Dakota. On a fixed income I only have one shot at getting this right so I cannot try one after the another until I find one that will help me in my situation. I would imagine the good ones are probably out of my reach financially also but first I will find one that works then I will work on coming up with the money to buy one.

Any advise you can give me on this matter would be greatly appreciated. There are so many of these recoil pads out there at the local gun shops along with the gunsmiths it hard to know which one really does what they say it does. . But unfortunately I am finding out the one that the shops and gunsmiths in the area recommend is the one they sell. Not necessarily the one that would remove the most recoil and face slap.

Please let me know if you can help me with any of these questions.

T.

Dear T.,

For most shooters, reducing recoil is a help in shooting better. For some, it is a requirement to shoot at all. For those of us with injuries to protect, especially spinal ones, there are a lot of options. Some of them even work.

Here are some recoil reducing approaches:

1) reduce the amount of shot and it’s speed.

In a 7# gun, 1 oz of shot at 1250 fps has 20.5 ft/lb of recoil energy. Reduce that load to 3/4 oz at 1150 fps and recoil goes down to 9.3 ft/lb. A reduction of more than half! Reducing the shell is far more effective than increasing the weight of the gun. Raising gun weight from 7# to 8# with the one ounce 1250 loads lowers recoil from 20.5 ft/lb to only 17.9 ft/lb. Hardly worth the effort. Recoil reducers like the Edwards basically only add weight to the gun. And they add it all in one place, which can upset the balance of a gun.

The problem with going to a lighter load in a field gun is that you still have to have enough oomph to kill the bird humanely. Still, you should think about the minimum that is required to kill the birds you hunt. Hint: big pellets don’t require high velocities to work well. Certainly, in target shooting, you should use the lightest loads possible. Cheaper too.

2) recoil pads can help, but it depends

All the current recoil pads I’m familiar with will require you to cut the butt of your stock flat to eliminate the curve. It’s not hard to do and whoever fits the pad for you can do it in a second. It also gives you a chance to alter your pitch if you wish to. As to one recoil pad being better than another, that’s open for debate. The new ones made from Sorbothane are good and don’t harden up the way the older pads did. On the other hand, pads like the Limbsaver and some others are so sticky that they are unsuitable for field use for many people. If you shoot with a pre-mounted gun as in trap, they are fine, but that would certainly look funny hiking around with a pre-mounted gun in the pheasant fields.

I think that the Pachmayer “Magnum” pad is a good compromise. They aren’t too sticky after a bit of use and they are thick enough to do as much as any recoil pad can be expected to do. I don’t have any way of measuring the recoil numbers of the particular pads, but I have noticed that the Pachmayer Magnum does cut down on shoulder trauma a bit.

But what you give with one hand, you take with the other. In order for recoil pads to work, they have to collapse slightly. This allows more gun movement along the face. If you are having face slap problems with a hard butt, they will be exacerbated by a collapsing recoil pad. That’s why Browning’s Cynergy had to go with a hump backed stock when it put a very thick recoil pad on the gun. The cheek is placed at the top of the comb’s arch and the comb actually recoils away from the face as it moves back. The downside of this kind of stock is that it requires prefect cheek placement to work properly. In the field that is a sometime thing.
Another thing to remember when fitting a recoil pad, guns with long stocks kick less than guns with short stocks. That’s because long stocked gun are generally placed more firmly into the shoulder pocket. Short stocks tend to be held more loosely, thus permitting the butt to build up a head of steam before it whacks you. Of course, the downside of a stock that is too long is that you’ll hang it up on your coat when you try to mount it on a pheasant.

3) the best solution is not the cheapest.

I it were my neck that was at stake, I wouldn’t mess around with a gun that could cause further injury. I’d get a soft shooting gas operated semi-auto. Pumps, O/Us and SxS guns are fixed breech guns and all have more perceived recoil than a gas auto. Actually, the total recoil of all guns is the same if they weigh the same and shoot the same shell, but the “perceived” recoil differs. Pumps, O/Us and SxSs give you their recoil very quickly like a punch or jab. Gas guns give you the same amount of recoil, but it is spread out over a longer period of time so it seems more like a push than a poke.

Currently, I believe that Beretta makes the best gas operated semi auto. Their 3901 model, based on the previous 390 action, is often sold for around $700 in “big box” stores. The 391 model costs more and is very nice, but isn’t really any better for practical field purposes.

Berettas are soft shooting, but they aren’t the softest shooting gas guns. I’ve not shot every gas gun ever made, but Remington 1100s and Browning Golds have always seemed very soft shooting to me. But I don’t think that they are quite as reliable as the Berettas are. Benelli makes an excellent semi auto, but they are inertia operated and don’t reduce recoil as much as the gas guns do. Still, even if the Beretta isn’t absolutely the softest gas gun, it’s a whole ton softer than a fixed breech pump, even one as hefty as the BPS.

A big advantage to the Beretta and Browning gas guns is that their stocks can be easily adjusted with shims for a perfect fit. A properly fit gun may not have less actual recoil than another gun, but it will seem to kick less. It will certainly kick less to the face if it fits properly.

A new gun is certainly more financially onerous than just adding a recoil pad. You may be able to find what you want as a used gun and the trade-in value of the BPS would be helpful. I wish I had a perfect answer for you that was cheap and effective, but I don’t . If I were in your shoes, I’d put my health first and wallet second.

Best regard,
Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid

Equivalent Choke Dimensions

Hi Mr Technoid,

I have a Thompson Contender 45 long Colt/410 guage barreled pistol.

My question is…. What are the decimal equivalent of the chokes for the 410 guage?

I have a screw in choke that comes standard in the barrel, and I want to drill out the choke (and spares I will buy) to the modified, full and improved cyl.

If I only knew what the choke sizes were!

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanking you in advance,

Rusty

Dear Rusty,

I may have covered this one before, but it never hurts to generate a little more internet ink to spread confusion and doubt.

First I have to remind you and the rest of Shotgun Report’s readers that specific choke dimensions and labels don’t necessarily convert into exact pattern sizes with every shell. As much as everyone hates to pattern test, that is the ONLY way to know for sure what you have. A specific choke constriction number is only one of the many variables that determine pattern. Bore diameter, forcing cone taper, chamber length, leade and parallel design and, definitely not the least, shell construction and components, all have an important effect. Trust me, with a little tinkering around, a typical .020″ constricted 12 gauge Mod choke can throw IC or Full patterns.

So, having covered my posterior, I ran some spreadsheet numbers interpolating subgauge choke dimensions from the more or less accepted constrictions used in 12 gauge. Here’s what I got:

	12	20	28	.410
SK	0.005	0.004	0.004	0.003
IC	0.01	0.008	0.008	0.006
Lt. Mod	0.015	0.013	0.011	0.008
Mod	0.02	0.017	0.015	0.011
Imp. Mod	0.025	0.021	0.019	0.014
Lt. Full	0.03	0.025	0.023	0.017
Full	0.035	0.03	0.026	0.02
X-Full	0.04	0.034	0.03	0.022
XX-Full	0.045	0.038	0.034	0.025

Remember, these are just calculated numbers meant to have the same percentage choke reduction in each gauge. They aren’t based on performance tests of any kind. That said, my experience with subgauge guns indicates that they are pretty close in the real world.

Best regards,

Bruce Buck
The Technoid writing for Shotgun Report, LLC
(Often in error. Never in doubt.)

Where To Lube

Technoid,

Is there a place on the net that might have pictures of the correct places to lube a Beretta 686 White Onyx Sporting to prevent wear? The manual does not give very good details on it. Also, the extractor/ejector rails feel like they have some grit under them when I manually push them.

Thanks for your wisdom in advance.

Rick

Dear Rick,

Congratulations on your Beretta Sporter. You made a wise choice. My wife has been shooting a 28 gauge Beretta 687 for over 15 years and the gun has proven extraordinarily durable. My Beretta Essential field gun has also functioned perfectly, though it doesn’t have all that many rounds through it.

As to where to lube, I’m not aware of any particular website with specific instructions. For what it’s worth, I can tell you what I do.

Some people like oils to lube the bearing surfaces of a gun. Some prefer grease. I’ve used both and can’t really tell much difference. I use Slip 2000 Lubricant on my Perazzis. It has worked marvelously well and leaves the bearing surfaces shiny. On all my other guns I use generic lithium grease. I have several very high mileage Belgian Browning O/Us that have shown no sign of wear in the bearing areas after many years of this grease.

The key to oil or grease is not to use too much. I put a little on a Q-tip and daub it where it is needed. Too much is worse than not enough because the oil can soak into the wood and rot it and excessive grease can attract grit. The key to any lubrication is to clean the bearing surfaces spotlessly just BEFORE you apply the oil/grease. If the bearing surfaces are clean before you put the lube on, it almost doesn’t matter what lube you use.

Now- where to put the stuff. Just put it on the bearing surfaces. Think about which parts get the wear when you operate the gun. Obviously the hinge trunnion stubs get most of the wear. I don’t lube them, but I do lube the notches they fit into on the sides of the monobloc because I find that easier to access. I also smear the slightest bit of oil/grease on the sides of the monobloc. Ditto on the front of the receiver where it mates with the rear of the forend iron. I do not lube the two locking cones or their engagement holes because I want these parts to have a little “grab”. That’s really about it. If, after a while, you see any signs of wear on other areas, then lube them too.

The “grit” you sense in the ejectors (typically a weak spot for Beretta O/Us) is probably just the spring compressing inside the monobloc. If it makes you feel better, pull the ejectors and grease the spring a bit, but you don’t really have to. Sooner or later the spring swill flatten a bit on the outside but that never seems to affect the way they work.

As to general lube on the interior of the gun, I usually just remove the stock from the action and spray the heck out of the inside of the receiver with whatever I have at hand (except WD-40). Rem oil is fine. Or Break Free CLP. Or just about anything else (except WD-40) that sprays and claims to lubricate. Then I blow the action clean with air pressure so that there is no excess oil and put it all back together for another year. DO NOT overoil the interior of your gun as the oil will leak into the head of the stock and may soften the wood. By the way, to avoid oil soaking, I store my guns muzzle down in the safe.

And now the escape clause: There are a million different successful ways to lube a gun. I always tell my readers that if what they are doing works, then don’t pay the slightest attention to what I recommend. If what they are doing doesn’t work, then it would make sense to try something else, whether it’s my way or someone else’s.

Remember, the key to lubing a guns bearing points is to only put the lube on after those surfaces have been wiped clean of old lube and dirt. The last thing you want to do is to trap grit in there.

Best regards,
Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid

To Dry Fire Or Not

Dear Technoid:

I have two semi-automatic shotguns, a Browning A-5 and a Beretta AL-390.

I have always been told never dry fire a gun, that is don’t click an empty gun since it can/will damage the firing pin. I wonder is it better to leave

the thing cocked all the time, or should I dry fire it, or get some of those snap caps that supposedly protect the firing pin, of is it no big deal to leave the gun cocked for months at a time??

John

Dear John,

Storing guns hammer down or cocked is an old question, but certainly deserves revisiting every now and again. The theory is that springs, older leaf springs in particular, lose their strength when stored in a compressed state.

My gun collector friends ALWAYS store with hammer down over a snap cap. Clearly, this is the most cautious and sensible approach. Being less cautious and sensible, I generally store my SxS and O/Us cocked and my autos open. I have been using the same 1926 Webley and Scott leaf spring box lock hunting gun for fifteen years. It is not shot that much and it spends most of its time cocked. I have had no leaf spring problems. That doesn’t mean that the guy who stores with dropped hammers won’t get 30 years between spring failures, but as for me- so far, so good.

Coil springs have never given me any problem, stored cocked or not. As a matter of course, I replace all springs on competition guns every 25,000 rounds or sooner. I replace the action and magazine springs on my gas guns every 10,000. Springs are cheap. I don’t believe that I have ever replaced a coil spring on my O/U hunting guns.

One thing is for sure- if you are going to store your guns with the hammers down, make sure to use snap caps on the O/U’s and SxS’s. Do NOT be cheap and use an old hull. The old hull will take some of the strain off of the ejectors when the gun is opened, but it will provide no protection at all for the firing pin or breech face on dry firing. After being dry fired a time or two, the primer on the old hull is dented to the extent that it no longer provides any resistance to the firing pin. That is the whole point of a snap cap- resistance to firing pin strike. Use proper snap caps, the kind with spring loaded brass or nylon inserts. Change them when they look worn. Snap caps are not a good place to economize.

Some O/Us and SxS guns can be happily dry fired without snap caps, but I am not sure which ones those are. Maybe some of the more modern guns. The trouble is that few manufacturers will tell you that you can dry fire their guns.

On other O/U and SxS guns, dry firing puts real stress on the firing pin shoulder and back side of the breech face. The Rottweil Olympia target guns made by Gamba in the late ’70s would break a firing pin almost every time that they were dry fired! Not surprisingly, Mauser shotguns of the same period (also made by Gamba) shared this problem. I am sure that there are many other brands that do not like to be dry fired without snap caps, but since I do not do it or recommend it, this has not been an area of concern for me.

Gas guns are different. I have always dry fired my Remington 1100s, B-80s, Super-Xs, Ithaca 51s and various Berettas without benefit of snap caps. There has never been a problem of any kind doing this, though it was hard to tell with the Ithaca 51 as it broke constantly regardless ofhow it was treated.

One last thought on dry firing: Before dry firing, make sure to open the gun and make sure that it is either empty or that those snap caps really ARE snap caps. I know, I know, but you would be amazed!

Finally, whether hammer down or cocked, I always store my shotguns muzzle DOWN in the gun safe. This does two things:

1) it keeps pressure off of the stocks so that they do not take a set, and
2) it keeps any errant oil from soaking down into the head of the stock.

I think that this is a lot more important than whether or not the gun is stored cocked.

Regards,
Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid